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i believe in freedom.,in the physical and mental world--been working to free myself from mental slavery-conditioning.,.,our schools dont teach it--most people dont even seem to be aware of it--taking thier bondage as natural.,so how free are you.,do you want more-++?
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 7:05 AMmany layers to the onion.
Its an ongoing process, you have to raise all your thoughts/memories to consciousness, and honestly say what is fact and what is assumption. Anything that is not a real thing or proven fact needs to be eliminated...problem is that makes up 99% of what you know.
But work on it every moment, it gets easier, then you can deal just with whats so -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 1:06 PMok.,what i think your saying is if i want freedom.,than i must give up my beliefs--one problem--you are making an assumption that i have beliefs .,and that i havnt done that allready.,letting go of the program weve been taught and reforming our thinking into a more compatible--user friendly lifestyle.,been on that road since i left home in 1972.,still working on it--life process.,.,Freedom to Love is my blessing--peace -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 1:10 PMI just assumed, you had assumptions. Beliefs are assumptions too, unless they are supported by facts and proof.
Freedom to me, is letting go of my beliefs and assumptions and getting to the Zen moment, space between thoughts...
This is just true for me, I dont know what is true for others.
You are love, you are freedom, I believe... -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 1:22 PMif you are love you are freedom and thats the best thing a person can do for themselves.,and freedom to love and be loved-- -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 1:34 PMso true, great words, I felt that!
Thank you friend -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 1:39 PMThank You My Reflection~ -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 1:40 PMThe mirror that we are, got that... -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 20, 2009 - 10:24 AM.
thinking that you do not have beliefs....
may just be a belief.
I don't know... something you *may* want to look at...
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 20, 2009 - 10:26 AM.
In my experience... and for what it's worth....
those that espouse that they are the freest...
are just subscribing to a different... (read more subtle?) set of dogmas...
I don't know... something you *may* want to look at...
jus sayin....
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Sat, July 11, 2009 - 7:06 AMwell, I worked in an alternative school for several years, so first I am bothered by yo urblanket statement about what schools do or do not do.
However, I am alway svery free with my appreciation of nature, with my reading, with my desire to research news items, with my dance and my involvement in the community.
I choose to be safe. I choose to not participate where predators or angry hang out. I choosemy use of food, alcohol, diet, exercise, religion.
I am free in many ways.
i also choose to be under the radar insoem ways. I have this choice. I choose my friends. -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Sat, July 11, 2009 - 7:26 AMfree up the love channel and enjoy the ride--they dont teach freedom in school.,a lot of this mess were in is the programming the kids--teach them how to love--teach them to be responsible for thier actions--all of them.,because what ever you sow--shall yea reap--PeacearoundU -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Sat, July 11, 2009 - 8:27 AMwow
I am surprised by you rnegativity.
We did teach loving, we did teach responsibility
we did teach community; we did get donations an dsupport fo rat-risk kids and reteach and reteach and resupport and feed and hold when crying kids and parents.. that is teaching lov ein action.
I asked you nicely to be open about schools.
go to a few alternative schools.. you may be pleasantly surprised.
I need to hold boundaries against narrow minded opinions
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 20, 2009 - 11:58 AM.
PS... I love Cathyq.
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 20, 2009 - 12:05 PMlove is like a bar of soap.,carefull how you hold it--the tighter you squeeze--the farther it will fly-- ;o}~ and your right on the language thing.,im still learning how to use it.,and thanks tom for reflecting so well.,youve stimulated my peanut.,its all good++
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Sat, July 11, 2009 - 10:54 AMas moki said, many layers to the onion.
is it even possible for a physical being with physical limitations to experience complete freedom? i think by the nature of our humanity, we have certain limitations.
and believing that you have no beliefs is a belief. many layers to the onion, and many return back to themselves.
certainly, an awareness of our conditioning is key. but i don't think the choice is to release ourselves from conditioning, as i don't think that is even possible. i think the secret is to choose conditioning that leaves you with the experience of freedom.
and while i think that every human has the capacity to expand their awareness of themselves into a higher realm, i don't think every human is on this earth at this point in their own development in order to do that. some folks are simply here experiencing a limited survival existence, and that's no better or worse than experiencing an existence of great freedom... it's just another step on the path. and once someone sees that there actually *is* a path, then their journey begins.
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Sat, July 11, 2009 - 1:54 PMyes--the journey.,the red road of peace--the obstacles are everywhere--minds closed by themselves--cathyq--please dont take me so persanolly--i love the fact you are physical.,and work with conscience with the kids--they are the future.,i dont like the history thats been told--being told--something about bullshit just turns me off--its taken me many years to learn what little real history i know--and my real education started the day i got out of school-the straightjacket--bullshit reality that is forced-reinforced daily by propoganda and people saying--you cant think like that--im a freebird--how about U-? -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Sat, July 11, 2009 - 5:29 PMYes pickerrick, school was a very problematic-factory-worker-conditioning experience for many people, maybe even most. But you continue to talk about schools as if there is only one school type and that they are all like that. You make no distinction between the schools you attended and have had experience with and all the schools that you know nothing at all about. It would seem that it is a very touchy subject for you and one can only respect that. But Cathyq is trying to open your eyes to the fact that not all schools are like that nor are they even trying to be like that.
As for freedom from beliefs, I do not find freedom for myself by giving up beliefs but rather by choosing my beliefs and remaining constantly aware that they are only the beliefs I have chosen for myself and not necessarily true for anyone else at all. I create and sculpt them to suit my needs. I share them with others but do not force them upon anyone. And they are always open for discussion and change. That is part of my freedom.
blessingsharmonyjoy -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 20, 2009 - 10:54 AM.
Dancing tree joe...
> I do not find freedom for myself by giving
> up beliefs but rather by choosing my beliefs
so... you have exchanged a set of shackles... for another more pleasant, prettier set of shackles?
and so...
is there a way to be without shackles?
what would that be like?
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 20, 2009 - 11:25 AMTom:
I have this quote. Its about keeping open to choice, and not deciding.
Choice: Do so freely after consideration, with the ability to choose again if the answer doesnt fit the new reality or moment.
Decision: Cut of choices, as in suicide:
"So choose again, choices dont run out in life, only your decisions make you run out of choices." -Tom (moki) Gallagher
www.great-inspirational-quotes.com/thomas-m-gallaghers-so-choose-again-visitors-quote.html
I think what we have here is a classic example of context and intention problem...
Beliefs as long as they are open to change and transformation is ok, but if the believer says this is the only truth, thats the problem of freedom for self and all of us. Believers are more likely to judge and be prejudice because of the nature of believing your own truth as the only answer.
Love,
Moki -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 20, 2009 - 11:47 AMa zen saying-if you want the truth give up your beliefs--im in the process--i never said i have no beliefs--im as mixed up as the next guy--and still on discovering who i really am--i started this thread to get my motor running--see what the other reflections think--Thanks All~++ -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 20, 2009 - 11:56 AM
Pick....
> i never said i have no beliefs--im as mixed up as the next guy <
this isn't about you.
it is a discussion right?
discussion is abstract.
how we approach that discussion is up to us.
individually...
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 20, 2009 - 11:52 AM.
hmmmm.
I think I would use the word "conclusion" in your example instead of decision... not for any deep reason... well there is some etymological hints... but... because decision making is a daily need... or occurrence.
decisions about dinner choices... decisions about scheduling and calender issues etc.
these decisions have negligible affect on our "beliefs".
There are naturally more "important" beliefs... deeper decisions and conclusions... those that enter the psychological, psychic and spiritual realm that are worth discussing.
YES!
it seems to me that when we tend to attach the self... some ego, to our decisions - our conclusions... "look how smart I am I "know" something now!" "I am better than you because I have come to Truth"
so... "context and intention"...
seems to me...
the tendency to attach ourselves to our decisions and conclusions is a subtle action....
may be more subtle then we may admit or easily see...
where "Belief" gives us meaning (or at least our ego)....
Belief, gives us credence and social station... within our head and outside of it...
and it just may be... that this is something to be aware of as we look at our beliefs...
If belief is a butterfly in our hand...
no matter how delicately we hold it...
it is still held... and it is still a belief/butterfly.
There are a great number of tremendous manuscripts that discuss the letting go of ones ego...
and this issue of belief is fairly deeply discussed...
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 20, 2009 - 1:03 PMOk Tom...since you dont like how we are creating our own context. Lets use the real definitions.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice
Look them up...I can choose everything you are saying, without making a final decision that this is the only truth.
There is a problem with truth, and I know its the way the world functions, but it doesnt mean its the best way to be.
"if you experience the moment, thats the truth, the minute your brain interprets the moment its no longer the truth, rather its a good assumption. Few facts make up our knowledge base, mostly good and bad assumptions. In life understand, what you know to be true doenst make you more powerful, only you being in action to change or transform your world makes you powerful and makes a difference."
Thus the say from Existentialism, which comes to the conclusion that life is empty and meaningless because our brains cant know the absolute truth is..., "The truth believed is a lie" Or better yet, my favorite, "whats obvious is whats so, whats not so obvious is its so what.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existentialism
The irony of people of faith, is that they become some of the most prejudice people because of the nature of their beliefs in holding that they are right, and everyone else is wrong including their faith. -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 20, 2009 - 5:30 PMin other words--dont sweat the petty things.,.,just pet the sweaty things.,.,and theres lots of sweaty things out there~~
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 20, 2009 - 7:21 PM.
wow moki...
what happened?
discussion over?
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 20, 2009 - 7:51 PMhe will be back--he cant get enough freedom--hes probably out petting sweaty things--his kids., -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 20, 2009 - 8:07 PMLOL, I love "don't sweat the petty things, pet the..." Did you make that up? Ate WA apricots again tonight... -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 20, 2009 - 8:15 PMnah.,i borrowered that saying from little flower.,and apricots are allmost all ive been into lately.,im picking 4 varieties now.,and in my yard alone i have 6 moorpark apricot trees bering well.,.,freedom to gorge--yeah++++
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 20, 2009 - 9:34 PMSorry went out on a date. Was I being confusing? My ADHD
what was you question Tom? -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 20, 2009 - 9:48 PMhow was the date`? and your post number 50 on this little thread -i take it as a sign .,.,such a blessing our little tribe here.,.,at this point love is the answer to all the questions--and if you cant be with the one you love--love the one your with++ -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Tue, July 21, 2009 - 6:54 AMnot sure, it didnt have the spark I was looking for, people have so much healing to do, and I cant fix anyone....just love and see what happens.
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Sat, July 11, 2009 - 6:16 PMI am free. you are free, we are all already free. There is no where to go for freedom other then where you we right now. Once people stop believing they are not free then they will be free. Its all a matter of believing. -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Sat, July 11, 2009 - 7:30 PMyes belief and attitude are the keys to freedom.,and im sorry if i sound down on all schools--just grade K-12.,those are the biggest reason the family has disinteragated.,and communitys are disfuntional.,.,take the kids away from the family 5 days a week.,.,feed them false history and propoganda .,the masters version of the plan--teacher--leave those kids alone--i had a really bad time with grade school--im a rebel--and my aquarius nature--freebird just was my nature--i did not buy into the program.,still dont.,anyways.,love you all.,~ -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Sun, July 12, 2009 - 12:31 AMThe schools of today are brainwashing factories
If you have children, then go homeschool and meditate with them. -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Sun, July 12, 2009 - 4:49 AMI see your point of view, but I was another person that had a very positive school experience. I learned how to be assertive and independent. I learned that if I work hard, I can change the world. I was able to get in front of the school district and change rules about forms of dress, public expression and more. More than anything, we learned that part of being part of society, means using your creativity and being the change we want to see.
What I love about freedom is that it gives us the ability to choose our own path. Some kids do much better with homeschooling, others need the interaction of a school environment. All are good and all are necessary. It is the same in the work environment. Some people do great in a corporate environment, others need to be independent contractors... different strokes for different folks... true freedom!
Blessings!
Need Advice? Looking for Inspiration? tribes.tribe.net/inspirationsfrombinah
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Sun, July 12, 2009 - 9:36 PMI see your point with the different strokes for different folks thing, for i believe the same. the best freedom is just to be. -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Sun, July 12, 2009 - 10:06 PMi want to thank you all for being here-and aware.,and caring for this subject--ive come to the conclusion that freedoms in all of us--thanks again tribers and may love be your blanket and peace be your pillow --+ -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 13, 2009 - 12:28 AMHere! Here!
I love conversations like this on Tribe. It reminds me of the old days when I could barely keep up with the amount of people here. This is my favorite site for intelligent commentary!
Blessings!
Need Advice? Looking for Inspiration? tribes.tribe.net/inspirationsfrombinah -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 13, 2009 - 3:21 PM
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 13, 2009 - 5:58 PMThis is why this is the only place to be on the internuts!
Love ya' all and your damn sexy minds!
BLISSINGS! -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 13, 2009 - 7:28 PMword up to all y'all: Tribe is still here!
THANK YOU my dears! -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Wed, July 15, 2009 - 8:11 PMwow--freedom.,george michaels.,pretty cool
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 20, 2009 - 10:49 AMhe he he
> --ive come to the conclusion that freedoms in all of us <
Pickwick... "make no conclusions"... he he
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Thu, July 16, 2009 - 6:38 PMi am more a learner than a teacher... IMO teachers who love learners will read Ayn Rand Atlas Shrugged understand and share its suggested freedom in the physical and mental world... read Aristotle, Adam Smith, Mark Twain, too!
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Thu, July 16, 2009 - 7:58 PMi like the four agreements- by don ruiz--super soul food-- -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Fri, July 17, 2009 - 7:24 AMMe too! My friend walking bear sent the book to me, great simple principles to live your life by.
Never assume
Never take anything personally
Always do your best
whats the fourth one? -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Fri, July 17, 2009 - 7:44 AMbe impeccable with your word... -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Fri, July 17, 2009 - 9:07 AMFunny I forgot that one, maybe it means something, well, I will just give up that meaning, not create reasons for my forgetting, just put it back in...
Its an ongoing process, many layers to the onion, its not automatic.
But repeating these four laws, will help to recreate it in my life.
Be your word
no assumptions
Be your best
its not personal, dont assume it is... -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Sun, July 19, 2009 - 7:09 AMthe process is allways ongoing--it took me a year working on my word alone--meditating everyday--then i started dropping my assumptions--another year--it takes time--of course anything worthwhile is worth the time-++++repeating these four simple rules has changed my thinking-aura--and has made my life simpler-++ -
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Mon, July 20, 2009 - 10:38 AMPickwick...
You question is good...
(it *was* a question right?)
But there needs to be a consensus of those in the discussion on what we mean by "freedom".
is freedom the liberties a government gives us?
It seems to me...
that by describing freedom as merely the "dropping of beliefs and assumptions" we are really devaluing a pretty phenomenal state of being...
maybe to describe freedom as being "from" something... (ie... I am free from my need of approval...)
maybe it is a stand alone...
I would for me liken it perhaps to "Love"
being "in Love" is usually a statement about our expectations of another...and is conditional.
ie... I am "In Love" with My wife... Until she cheats on me.
But LOVE... unconditional LOVE may be something quite different.
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The four agreements...
Mon, July 20, 2009 - 10:47 AM
They are pretty great!
and on-going...
that I think is what I so appreciate about you Moki...
You have the maturatiy and experience to see that... this is on-going process we are involved wth...
there is no "there" to get to...
we may never (although the possibility exists that we may...) "get to the place" that we are completely without assumption... on a permanent basis...
or get to the place... where we take nothing personal...
or where we are impeccable with our word (completely... utterly... everytime... without continually reminding ourselves)
or where we are "always" our best....
we are human and get tired...
and we have an amazing capacity to justify...
and again... Moki... I appreciate your honesty and truth in your knowing this to be the case...
you are for me... about as genuine as a man can get...
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Re: its got to be FREEDOM~
Sun, September 27, 2009 - 8:08 PMMeditate daily. It is the last freedom.
